Comic Book Interview: Justin Murphy Talks Cleburne Graphic Novel – Part Two
Written by Nicholas Yanes on September 30, 2008 – 10:00 am -
By Nicholas Yanes
Nick Yanes: In a text about the Civil War, African-Americans are going to be encountered. How do you feel your portrayal of African-Americans differs from main stream comics?
Justin Murphy: I don’t think the reality of racism is dealt with very often in mainstream comics. There’s a real color-blind mentality to the storytelling. Let’s face it, I could be wrong, but I don’t think Luke Cage was ever called a “n***er” in mainstream comics. In the real world, if there were black superheroes they would undoubtedly encounter that type of prejudice from time to time.
Because of the subject matter in Cleburne, racism is confronted head-on and shown in all its ugliness. It would be a disservice to history to depict it any other way. There’s a reason why that word is censored from television and in public conversation. It’s a degrading word with a painful history and still has to ability to provoke an emotional response. If I’m going to tell the truth in Cleburne I have to show the ugly side of humanity as well.
Nick Yanes: When the average person thinks of African-American soldiers and the Civil War, they often think of the movie Glory. Do you feel this might create preconceived notions about what Cleburne should be?
Justin Murphy: I’ve had some people comment, “how is this any different than Glory?”; this tells me that they’re not fully understanding the premise. Cleburne is nothing like Glory. First of all Glory is the story of a regiment. Cleburne is the story of a man. Glory is what you’d expect: black soldiers fighting for the North. Cleburne is not what you’d expect: black soldiers fighting for the South. One matches your expectations and the other one challenges them.
But if people want to make the comparison anyway, that’s fine. Glory is an incredible film, and I’ve never met anyone who didn’t love it (even chicks like the movie).
Nick Yanes: In regards to main stream entertainment, does your depiction and characterization of African-Americans reinforce or complicate views of Blacks in contemporary culture and around the Civil War?
Justin Murphy: I think it does both. On one hand, it reinforces the point that they are a race that has suffered generations of oppression, yet has shown enough resilience to rise above it. On the other hand, it complicates the matter because if previous generations can overcome such extreme inequality, then today’s generation has no excuse. We’ve become such a materialistic and entitlement culture, that it’s important to be reminded of a time when people had so little and suffered so much, yet still overcame. I’m white and that fact inspires me every day, how much more inspired would I be if I were black?
Nick Yanes: Were there any depictions of African-Americans in the Civil War/Slavery narratives (movies, books, television shows) that influenced the story?
Justin Murphy: Yes; several eyewitness accounts that helped me create the character of Ned. One such account involves a black sharpshooter who was captured by Federal troops. When they asked him why he was shooting at them he said, “because you’re down here.” There is also a story of an unknown black civilian who contributed money to erect the monument over General Cleburne’s grave. No one knows what Cleburne did for the man but it was a source of inspiration for me as a writer.
A lot of information I found on black confederates is from a book called, “Black Southerners in Gray”.
Nick Yanes: The art for this story seems traditionally for mainstream superhero titles – what inspired you to keep this style for a story about the Civil War?
Justin Murphy: First of all, the artist rarely picks the style; the style picks the artist. I can’t say why I draw the way I do, it must be a combination of past influences. I grew up reading a lot of superhero comics so that had some part in it. I also hired old-school Marvel inker Al Milgrom, and his inking style has a slight “Kirby” look to it. I also kept the cross-hatching and shadows to a minimum because the length of the book demanded a certain level of output to complete, and my colorist J. Brown is so good I wanted to give him lots of room to play. The book almost looks like an animated film in still pictures to me.
Nick Yanes: The comic book medium has a rich tradition of telling non-fiction historical tales. How do you feel about being one of a few creators to deal with the Civil War?
Justin Murphy: Surprised. First of all, the Civil War is the most popular period in US history (next to maybe WWII) so I have no idea why it hasn’t been done before. I guess I should be thankful for that. It’s not often you get to corner the market on something! I know Marvel had planned to release a lavishly illustrated book on the Civil War back in the 90s but the project got nixed for some reason.
The truth is you have to be passionate about this subject to write about it properly and I believe I was meant to tell this story. General Cleburne is virtually an unknown hero outside of Civil War circles and I am honored to bring his story to a wider audience.
Nick Yanes: As a fellow Floridian, how do you feel about the way comic books have traditionally depicted the South and Florida?
Justin Murphy: I can’t say I’ve ever seen either depicted at any great depth in a comic book before. Of course there’s always the stereotypical southern redneck that pops up from time to time in certain stories, and there was one time in a GI Joe book where Snake Eyes was down in the Florida Everglades but I can’t really think of anything else.
Nick Yanes: The main comic book industry is clearly located in New York City. Yet, the South and Florida have several independent comic book publishers – yours, Rampart Press (Jacksonville, FL.); Particle 9 Productions (Navarre, FL.); Strawberry Comics (Norcross, GA.); and now defunct CrossGen Comics (Tampa, FL.). Do you think the number of independent comic book companies reflect a nation trend or something unique to Florida and the South?
Justin Murphy: I think it’s easier to run a company in the South because labor and overhead are cheaper. Good money in Florida is not good money in New York, and don’t even get me started on rent comparisons. The beauty of the comics industry is that you can have your company based out of a swamp, and as long as you have access to a phone and the mail, you can work with anyone anywhere on a book. My inker and colorist live in New York and Massachusetts and I’ve never met either face to face, but we work well together. Why would I house employees down here when I can hire freelancers who live anywhere? This makes comic publishing a very unique and flexible business.
As for trends, the only trend I care about is producing good books that tell great stories and make a profit. Companies come and go, but great stories last forever.
Nick Yanes: A large part of the comic book industry is focused on turning comics into movies or TV shows. What is the long term vision for you and this text?
Justin Murphy: A movie of course and I’m not ashamed to admit it. Cleburne is a story that is tailor-made for Hollywood. I can’t stand these purists that talk about “selling out”. Of course I want to sell out! I want to sell out every seat at the world premiere of Cleburne so more people hear this story. Some people will never read a graphic novel no matter what it’s about, but they’ll go see a movie. It would make no sense for me to say, “I want to get this story out to a wider audience,” and then turn around and say, “but only in the comics medium!”
I also think a line of statues or figures (like McFarlane’s Military) would be hot and would sell well to the Civil War market. Who wouldn’t want to buy a grimy Rebel Soldier or better yet…a Black Confederate!
Comics are just another outlet for story-telling. Yes they are art and yes I love them, but the story is the important thing…not the medium! That’s why I sat down for eleven months and drew over 200 pages of artwork. The story is the driving force. Cleburne is a labor of love, but make no mistake about it…it is labor. That is why so few people can cut it in the comics business. Talent is a small part of it. Without discipline, the work never gets done and the talent remains undiscovered. In this uncertain market of comic publishing it would be foolish not to consider other licensing opportunities. Comics just don’t sell like they used to, and that is why the companies are turning to other media. They’d probably go out of business if they didn’t.
Graphic novels on the other hand, are selling more than ever and that is because of the returnable bookstore market. I think graphic novels are the future of printed comics and the only hope for their survival. Sadly, within ten years, we may see the demise of the old-style comic book pamphlet that we all grew up reading. Our heroes may only be known from the movies, video games and toys they are adapted into.
Nick Yanes: As someone who taught a course on comic books at Florida State University, I am fully aware of comic books’ growing presence in Universities across the US and the world. If professors were to begin using Cleburne as a text for a course, what kind of college class do you see it being taught in? History, English, Art appreciation?
Justin Murphy: History without a doubt; I’ve even considered putting together a Civil War study guide to go with the book so teachers can cover the major facts the students need to know, but then use the Cleburne GN as a way to get the students interested and enthusiastic about the period. I’m already talking with some Universities and High Schools about the idea. I think teachers are desperate for anything that will get students excited and learning again. There’s still a long way to go and a lot of stories to tell. Maybe Cleburne can have that impact.
- Nicholas Yanes is a comic book expert who has written two theses focused on graphic literature: “X-Men as a Reflection of Civil Rights in America” and “Graphic Imagery – Jewish American Comic Book Creators’ Depictions of Class, Race, and Patriotism.”
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- Nicholas Cage Talks Comic Book Projects
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Tags: Cleburne Graphic Novel, Justin Murphy
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